Why Can't I Sleep?

Are you spending one too many nights staring at the ceiling? This episode is for you. Insomnia is one of the most common — and most misunderstood — struggles among older adults, and it's rarely just about sleep itself.

We sit down with Tiffiny Ann Overath, a licensed clinical social worker and founder of Journey Forward Counseling, who brings over 20 years of clinical experience to the conversation. Tiffiny breaks down why insomnia hits seniors so hard, walking through the real numbers behind it and unpacking the roles stress, anxiety, and depression play in keeping us awake at night.

The most reassuring part? Tiffiny's clear on this: most people struggling with insomnia can become normal sleepers again, often without relying on long-term medication. If you're looking for real answers — for yourself or someone you're caring for — this episode offers both practical tools and genuine hope.

SeniorLivingGuide.com Podcast sponsored by LIVDRY & TerraBella Senior Living
 

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Transcript

Transcript

SLG_Aug 26_mixdown

SeniorLivingGuide.com Podcast

Date: August 19, 2026

Duration: 35:55

Speakers: 2

Segments: 163

Generated by Castmagic

Darleen Mahoney [00:00:01 - 00:00:15]

And today we are joined by Tiffiny Ann Overath. She is a licensed clinical and independent social worker and the founder of Journey Forward Counseling LLC, a local private practice in Melbourne, Florida, which is where I live.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:00:15 - 00:00:15]

Yay!

Darleen Mahoney [00:00:15 - 00:00:29]

Um, with over 2 decades of experience, she has worked across diverse clinical settings supporting individuals, couples, and families with a focus on improving overall quality of life. Thank you for joining us.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:00:29 - 00:00:31]

Thank you so much for having me.

Darleen Mahoney [00:00:31 - 00:00:47]

Absolutely. So, you know, I kind of overheard you talking at, um, a social worker case manager appreciation luncheon here in Melbourne, and one of the things you were talking about was something that I can relate to.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:00:47 - 00:00:47]

Sure.

Darleen Mahoney [00:00:47 - 00:00:56]

But I know so many, so many seniors, and really a lot of folks can relate to it, but it's Insomnia. Yeah, yeah, it's a booger, girl.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:00:56 - 00:01:44]

It is, it is. And it's so common, you know. I think probably 70% of my caseload kind of deals with this problem. So folks that come in to see me for a variety of reasons— I think actually the last statistic I heard was something like a third, or two-thirds of adults I should say, have sleep troubles, and one-third of them end up with a diagnosis of insomnia. So that's Yeah. 1 in 3. That's a pretty big statistic, right? That a lot of people have these problems. And maybe to no surprise, women are more likely, about 40% more likely to have insomnia. Veterans, about 60% more likely. And seniors, seniors are the highest rate of insomnia with like 75% of our seniors are having trouble sleeping.

Darleen Mahoney [00:01:44 - 00:02:04]

It seems like to me, I just think of myself and I'm not quite in the senior category, although AARP may disagree with me. When you're a kid, you can sleep, but you get up really early, but you get some good sleep. And then as a teenager, you can sleep for like—

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:02:04 - 00:02:05]

Days. Days.

Darleen Mahoney [00:02:05 - 00:02:20]

Yes. Oh, the dream of having that back. And then you go to college and you're still doing some of that kind of thing, but then you start going into the workforce and you start having children. And those babies, especially for women specifically, keep you up.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:02:20 - 00:02:21]

Yeah, yeah.

Darleen Mahoney [00:02:21 - 00:02:35]

And so it really messes up your sleep pattern. And then you think, well, you know what, when they start sleeping through the night, then I can get some sleep. But then I don't know about some folks, but I would like, if they were not getting up, I would get up to make sure they were still alive.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:02:35 - 00:02:35]

Sure.

Darleen Mahoney [00:02:35 - 00:02:54]

Because you just start and you just go into all the worrying patterns and things like that. But then I think you kind of can get back to like some regular sleep, but then you start getting, I feel like I'm gonna put the timeline In your 50s, maybe, when suddenly you start having issues.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:02:54 - 00:03:30]

Yeah, yeah. What I think is so interesting in, in what you're sharing is the correlation between stress and sleep. And so, so in all my research and all my reading and all my experience with, with troubled sleepers and insomniacs is, is this understanding that the correlation between mental health and insomnia is, is locked in. So, 80% of people with insomnia have either depression or anxiety. So, when you're talking about having a baby and bringing a new baby into the home and expanding your family, what happens to your stress level during those first few days, weeks, months, years?

Darleen Mahoney [00:03:30 - 00:03:32]

Oh, you become the worrywart.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:03:32 - 00:04:07]

Yes, yes. It absolutely explodes in a way that you've never had before. Becoming a mother is the most stressful thing that probably exists. And so this is a big part of my focus is not so much a medical treatment, because we'll talk a little bit about that if you like, but there aren't a lot of medical options. My focus is on the depression and the anxiety. If those things are treated and well managed, then ultimately the insomnia will subside. The insomnia is oftentimes a symptom of the mental health, not the other way around.

Darleen Mahoney [00:04:07 - 00:04:08]

It isn't—

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:04:08 - 00:04:12]

my mental health, or isn't the insomnia that creates depression. It's the other way.

Darleen Mahoney [00:04:12 - 00:04:35]

But let me ask you this. If you are not sleeping, the lack of sleep can also add to the stress that you already have or the anxiety that you already have because you're just— you're begging for something that's just not happening, that's out of your control. And you think, oh, I'm going to go to sleep and have such a good night's sleep. And then you wake up at 1:00 and you're awake for 4 or 5 hours and you're like, no.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:04:35 - 00:04:45]

Yes, yes. It is definitely what we would call like a symptom cycle. So once it starts, it almost like backfills itself to keep you locked in. Yeah. Yeah.

Darleen Mahoney [00:04:45 - 00:04:48]

And then you feel like garbage all day long. So that's just—

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:04:48 - 00:04:48]

Absolute.

Darleen Mahoney [00:04:48 - 00:04:48]

Never good.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:04:48 - 00:05:34]

Absolute garbage. Yeah. Yeah. And I also think it's interesting about how easy it is to sleep when you're young and not as easy to sleep as you're older. And some of that is actually biological. So, so interestingly, when we look at sleep recordings of babies versus adults, Babies have more REM sleep than adults, hands down. Every like 10 years or so, you have like a 10% reduction in REM sleep. It's very interesting how we are just built to sort of have less and less of that deep sleep as we grow. And part of that is because of the purpose of REM sleep to kind of reconcile memories and new knowledge and learning. So obviously, as a baby, you're learning a lot more than as like a 50-year-old. I've learned quite a bit at this—

Darleen Mahoney [00:05:35 - 00:05:35]

Right.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:05:35 - 00:05:37]

Yeah.

Darleen Mahoney [00:05:37 - 00:06:04]

Interesting. So I do know that, you know, just because I've gone through the insomnia and a lot of it is related to life events, um, you know, the passing of your— a family member or, you know, something going on that's stressful in your life, your marriage or whatever. I mean, there's a gazillion things that are happening, especially in today's world. Um, and the, the option seems to be for medical providers medications.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:06:04 - 00:06:37]

Yep. Yep. That's, that's pretty much all that's offered, right? Is you see your doctor, I'm not feeling well. Makes sense to go see your doctor. Sure. I'm not, I'm not sleeping. There's a problem. You get 2 choices from your doctor, take a pill or live with your problems. These are not great options, right? And since ultimately what I'm going to try to convince everybody is that a pill isn't really solving a problem, Right? If the underlying problem is actually my depression, my anxiety, my stress management, then a pill isn't going to do anything for that, right?

Darleen Mahoney [00:06:37 - 00:06:38]

Right.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:06:38 - 00:06:51]

And who really wants to take a pill forever? Like, for the rest of my life in order to sleep and build that kind of dependency? So, so bless our medical providers, but they do not have the solution. They just don't. Right.

Darleen Mahoney [00:06:52 - 00:07:06]

Okay. So, um, what advice Without, you know, clearly speaking to the person that's experiencing it and kind of digging through what's going on that's causing it is really ideal.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:07:06 - 00:07:06]

Yes.

Darleen Mahoney [00:07:06 - 00:07:20]

But in general, what are some things that, um, you recommend that can be helpful to bring down those stress levels and to give yourself a better opportunity for a decent night's sleep?

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:07:20 - 00:07:57]

Sure, sure. Um, you know, one thing that I will say that medical providers have done a better job at in the last few years is this conversation about sleep hygiene. I don't know if you've heard that term, sleep hygiene. Sort of an interesting phrase. But it has to do with some specific healthy habits or behaviors or even environmental factors that can be adjusted for a good night's sleep. So this is ultimately always a good place to start. But I will say sleep hygiene is probably more of a proactive approach. These are good to maybe prevent developing insomnia and might not do a lot if you already have it.

Darleen Mahoney [00:07:57 - 00:07:58]

Okay.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:07:58 - 00:08:48]

Right? So these are things like, you know, don't drink coffee at dinner, set the temperature of your home like cooler, get regular exercise. These are all relatively straightforward. You've probably heard all of these before, right? And so doctors do a good job with that stuff. But I think they miss out on the dig, the deeper dig, right? So one of the things that I teach is this concept cognitive restructuring. It basically just means changing how you think about your sleep, right? So, if every time I think about going to sleep, I think, I'm not going to get a good night's sleep. It's going to be a horrible night. I'm going to be miserable tomorrow. This is never going to go away. There is something wrong with me. See the trend? What are all those thoughts kind of invoking?

Darleen Mahoney [00:08:48 - 00:08:51]

You're setting yourself up for failure.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:08:51 - 00:09:12]

Yes, ma'am. Yes, yes. And, you're sort of turning on your wake system. You're activating yourself through all of this anxiety into stress, right? Your heart rate goes up. Your pupils dilate. Interestingly, I don't know if you know this, but stress actually bottoms out your metabolism. When you're stressed out, you don't metabolize your calories, folks.

Darleen Mahoney [00:09:12 - 00:09:14]

I 100% know that.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:09:14 - 00:09:34]

We all know this one, right? And so, all of those thoughts around your sleep have a tendency of making your sleep worse. So, we work really hard on correcting Some myths about sleep, as well as bringing people back to sort of a more neutral thought about their sleep.

Darleen Mahoney [00:09:34 - 00:10:12]

Okay. So, for me, turning down the air and having a fan, game changer. Got a sound machine, doing all the extras. I don't do caffeine after like probably 11 or 12. Because I used to be able to do that and sleep, whatever. I used to go get a coffee at 7 o'clock at night, whatever. 100% not. I can't even do— and I don't even risk it with decaf because I've had decaf that kept me up as well. So I don't know if I got the switcheroo in the Starbucks line, but yes, definitely have had that as an issue.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:10:12 - 00:10:14]

Yeah.

Darleen Mahoney [00:10:14 - 00:10:33]

And then one of the things that I think people forget about as well is turning your phone off. I can hear a text or something come in and I'm asleep and I ignore it, but then at some point, I'm dreaming about that text.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:10:33 - 00:10:34]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's coming in.

Darleen Mahoney [00:10:34 - 00:10:37]

And I end up waking up. Yeah, yeah.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:10:37 - 00:11:01]

This is really part of a more mental health focus that we would call stimulus control. So this is sort of this idea that any particular environment, can cue a specific emotion. Objects, sounds, textures, smells, things can cue very specific emotions. Think about what you might feel walking into the DMV. Stress.

Darleen Mahoney [00:11:01 - 00:11:01]

Yes.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:11:01 - 00:11:41]

How you feel walking into your grandmother's house. Oh, comforted, right? And so the bedroom all by itself is becoming a cue for people. So it's becoming a place that I'm stressed out, a place that I do my taxes, a place that I doom scroll. On my phone, a place that I watch TV too late, right? These, these are things that we can very— well, I don't know about easily, but very pragmatically fix and create my bedroom to be a cue for sleep and sleep only. So we need actually to turn off all electronics, televisions, tablets, cell phones, all of it, 2 hours before bed is the goal. Wow.

Darleen Mahoney [00:11:41 - 00:11:48]

Yes. Yes. So binge-watching Netflix and then Going to bed immediately after.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:11:48 - 00:12:34]

Not, not great, right? Because, great. Yeah, I mean, there's a— there's— if you're generally a normal, healthy sleeper, it's probably not a big deal to watch Netflix right up until bedtime. But if you're having sleep troubles, a different set of rules need to apply. Just like with diabetics, they don't get chocolate cake every day for dessert, right? This is just a different set of rules to manage that particular illness. So yes, absolutely no electronics, nothing that is sort of activating, nothing that like turns on your wake system, nothing that increases stress or anxiety. So adult coloring, meditations, yoga that's relaxing, none of that like wild, crazy power yoga I've seen done at some of these studios lately.

Darleen Mahoney [00:12:34 - 00:12:34]

Yeah.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:12:34 - 00:12:44]

You can read if it's like tax law, maybe that's nice and boring and will help you sleep, but no like murder mysteries or like intense romances. Like those are all activating.

Darleen Mahoney [00:12:45 - 00:12:45]

Right.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:12:45 - 00:12:46]

Yeah, yeah. And so—

Darleen Mahoney [00:12:46 - 00:12:53]

Like maybe putting together like a puzzle. I mean, working something like that which is relaxing but still keeps your brain active.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:12:53 - 00:13:07]

As long as it's not stressful. So, if you're one of those like competitive puzzle people or like you just find it frustrating to not find the right piece at the right time, then no. We've turned into sort of this activating part of our evening.

Darleen Mahoney [00:13:07 - 00:13:08]

Okay.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:13:08 - 00:13:08]

Yeah.

Darleen Mahoney [00:13:08 - 00:13:13]

So, just calm relaxation 2 hours before going to bed so that you're really relaxed.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:13:14 - 00:13:14]

Yes, yes.

Darleen Mahoney [00:13:14 - 00:13:26]

To increase your opportunity for good sleep. So are there different types of insomnia as far as— so what are those types? I'm so curious.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:13:26 - 00:14:21]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there are really 3 types of insomnia. So one is referred to as onset insomnia, and that just means I have a hard time falling asleep, right? Then comes maintenance insomnia. That's I fall asleep okay, but then I keep waking up and I have a hard time falling back to sleep. And then of course, the lucky few who get mixed, so they get a little bit of both, right? And so any insomnia could potentially start as situational, right? Like let's say you have a presentation like me today at the podcast. Maybe there's a little nerves the night before a test or a big event and you just don't sleep really well, right? A one-and-done thing like that just happens. That's normal. But a lot of times what happens is that stressor actually starts to like— that missed night's sleep, I should say, sort of starts adding stress into the next day. Oh gosh, what if I don't sleep again well tonight?

Darleen Mahoney [00:14:21 - 00:14:22]

Mm-hmm.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:14:22 - 00:14:36]

Right? And then I start working really hard at like trying to sleep at night, which is just making me more and more anxious and activated while lying in bed. And about a month later, all of a sudden, I'm still not sleeping well. I now have insomnia. Right?

Darleen Mahoney [00:14:36 - 00:14:36]

Yeah.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:14:36 - 00:14:44]

Yeah, it's a very slippery and very easy slope to go from a situation to a chronic problem. Right.

Darleen Mahoney [00:14:45 - 00:15:14]

So let me ask you this question. Does it make a difference if you do have certain insomnias where, you know, you can fall asleep, but then you wake up? If you push your bedtime to a later time, does that make a difference or no? If you go to bed typically, you know, 9:30 or earlier or whatever the case may be, Do you think you, if you waited later in the evening to go to sleep, that you would decrease your opportunity to wake up in the middle of the night, I guess is my question.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:15:14 - 00:15:16]

Oh, I get what you mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we'll—

Darleen Mahoney [00:15:16 - 00:15:16]

Yeah, sorry.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:15:16 - 00:16:02]

No, that's okay. Some of that is part of what we call prior wakefulness. And so that's really this concept of like how tired you are, how much time you've been awake since the last time you were asleep, right? And so in one of the strategies I teach called sleep consolidation, we will in fact move that bedtime later and later until we hit a spot that your drive to sleep, that internal urge to sleep is strong. So treating insomnia, I also say oftentimes things might get a little bit worse before they get a little bit better because I may keep you up later than you maybe want to and deprive a few hours here and there to get you back into consolidating all of your sleep into this one chunk of time at night without all of these wakings.

Darleen Mahoney [00:16:02 - 00:16:02]

Right.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:16:03 - 00:16:04]

Yeah.

Darleen Mahoney [00:16:04 - 00:16:11]

So, this is slightly off topic, but if you have sleep apnea, are you more prone to have insomnia?

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:16:11 - 00:16:47]

For a couple of reasons. And, I think that has a lot to do with the comfort of the device. And so, just getting comfortable with it on your face if you have a CPAP can be a little tricky. And then, onset or, I'm sorry, maintenance insomnia, if you're having apneic events that are waking you up, Or just the device is moving around on you at night, which it does. So full disclosure, I actually have sleep apnea. Thankfully, I was able to get fitted for an oral device instead of the big mask. But yes, especially getting used to that device is not an easy sleep.

Darleen Mahoney [00:16:47 - 00:16:51]

Yeah, yeah. But it's important if you have sleep apnea.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:16:51 - 00:16:53]

It's very important to treat it.

Darleen Mahoney [00:16:53 - 00:16:55]

Not to just ignore it. Yes, 100%.

TiffinyAnn Overath [00:16:55 - 00:16:56]

Yes, of course.

Darleen Mahoney [00:16:56 - 00:17:11]

Yeah, I thought that that would have some kind of a contributing factor one way or the other, especially if you aren't treated and you do have sleep apnea and you don't have a device, that you would think that having those issues would cause you not to get a good quality of sleep.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:17:11 - 00:17:38]

Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, if we think of just what an apneic event is, is basically that you have stopped bringing oxygen into your system. And then what happens to your heart rate? It picks up, right? It tries to pump what oxygen it has available to your organs. And so basically, your heart's going to start running a marathon in the middle of your sleep. That's not good sleep. Some people actually wake up during an apneic event, but even if they're not conscious, their body definitely woke up.

Darleen Mahoney [00:17:38 - 00:17:40]

Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:17:40 - 00:17:40]

Yeah.

Darleen Mahoney [00:17:42 - 00:17:49]

So one of the things I know, one of the first things you mentioned was women having being a little bit more problematic.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:17:49 - 00:17:49]

Sure.

Darleen Mahoney [00:17:49 - 00:18:13]

And then clearly seniors as well. So one of the things that correlates, or I'm asking if it correlates, is hormones. As you age, you start losing estrogen, and progesterone, and testosterone, and all the things. So are those somewhat contributing factors as well that can lead to some insomnia?

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:18:13 - 00:19:04]

Yeah, they are. I would say the more interesting hormones have to do with cortisol and melatonin though. Those are Okay. So those are the more interesting hormones that impact sleep. So if we think about your hypothalamus, so it's part of your deep ventricle brain, think your lizard brain, that is where we sort of have what I call the central pacemaker. It's the thing that's in charge of breathing, heart rate, metabolism, all of these sort of automatic features. This is also where cortisol and melatonin live. Right? And, these are big hormonal drives for your circadian rhythm, that concept of sort of being awake a portion of the day and asleep a portion of the day. So, women in our culture do in fact carry more stress than men. And, we can talk about that. That's a whole other podcast.

Darleen Mahoney [00:19:04 - 00:19:05]

That is such another podcast.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:19:05 - 00:19:49]

A whole other podcast, right? And so, generally, women are carrying around a lot more cortisol. Right, which is a hormone that is directly tied into the fight-or-flight response. Okay, so when I'm in a fight-or-flight response, I am activated. My wake system is wide open, right? This is not a time to sleep. And so even though our bodies were designed this way, and this is a very good and important feature of our body, the types of stressors that are releasing cortisol have changed a lot over a couple hundred years. It is, it is Rarely like a storm or a bear that we're afraid of, right? It's our boss. It's that email. It's that presentation. It's my teenage daughter. That girl is scary.

Darleen Mahoney [00:19:49 - 00:19:50]

Yeah.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:19:50 - 00:20:32]

You know, and so our bodies are just constantly kicking out nonstop cortisol, which means our bodies are prepared to fight all the time. That does not make for good sleep. As we get older, I think there's a very similar thing that happens in terms of stress. Right? It isn't, it isn't the same as, as, you know, like the new mother stress, but there is a profound stress that comes with aging. Our social circles change, our family connections start to thin out or dwindle. We stop working, we're not as social, we're more isolated. Stress and that cortisol just starts kicking, right? And then here we are in this like nonstop state of awake. Yeah.

Darleen Mahoney [00:20:33 - 00:20:47]

And I think, you know, with seniors and elderly folks, they have more medical issues that they worry about. Keeping medical appointments that they have to go to, keeping track of doctors. I literally, it's just like a game of Tetris, I think, at some points.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:20:47 - 00:20:48]

Probably, yeah.

Darleen Mahoney [00:20:48 - 00:21:13]

Especially if you have different ailments or different things going on that you might be seeing different physicians, keeping track of your medications, making sure you're taking the right ones, all the things. I just think there is so much that is put on seniors on top of even the socialized, And I do think one of the things that can also cause it is if you have too much time on your hands, you start— your brain starts going.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:21:13 - 00:21:14]

Yes.

Darleen Mahoney [00:21:14 - 00:21:19]

You know, you just start like all of a sudden stuff you wouldn't think about or worry about are just top of mind.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:21:19 - 00:21:21]

You start to worry. Yes, yes.

Darleen Mahoney [00:21:21 - 00:21:25]

You start to worry because you don't have other things occupying your brain.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:21:25 - 00:22:02]

Yeah, yeah. And that is deeply rooted in biological survival as well, right? So this ability to sort of pick out problems or see problems really in order to solve them is deeply rooted in who we are and how we've evolved as a species. I remember this study from Harvard I read a few years ago that talked about optimists and pessimists, and it kind of makes me think of this. So they took a group of people that were optimistic in nature and they tried to make them pessimists, and then they took a group of pessimists and they tried to make them optimists. What do you think they noticed? What was the difference between these 2 groups?

Darleen Mahoney [00:22:02 - 00:22:48]

I would imagine, just kind of knowing that, like, my friend circle and family circle, there's consistent pessimists and consistent optimists. The optimists, they will break it down, and it is really hard for them to become pessimistic because they have such a different— I don't even know how to explain it. I'm somewhat jealous of it. I'm not going to lie because I am not a— I feel like I'm somewhere in between. But I do feel like some of my friends that are optimistic, they're always finding the glass half full. Even if you're giving them something negative, they can find the better half of it. But it's hard for a pessimist to see it.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:22:48 - 00:23:50]

I think you're actually a little optimistic about this particular research study because what they found was actually quite different in that Moving an optimist to a pessimistic space was pretty easy. It actually didn't take very much effort at all. But moving a pessimist to an optimist was nearly impossible. Right? And so all that says to me is that my brain is naturally looking for problems. Right? This is part of survival from millions of years ago. Like, I look at this place and decide, Is this where we're going to set up camp and build a village? Well, no, because there's a river there and it might flood. Or no, there's a, like, a lion den over there in the corner and we can't, right? This is, this is very important part of who we are as a species to sort of find problems in order to solve them. So all that means to me is that we have to try very hard to stay optimistic, to manage our stress. It has to be quite intentional. Right? Because we're not wired to be optimists.

Darleen Mahoney [00:23:50 - 00:24:28]

Oh my gosh. That is incredible to me because I just kind of felt— So my question is, how do we do that? How do— if you know, because you know if you're a pessimistic person, you know that you're the Debbie Downer, that you see the negative in so many different things and you just worry, worry, worry. You know you're a worrywart. And sometimes I really do think it's hereditary or it was maybe the way you're raised, so you just kind of pick up on that your entire life. But, um, because I do see it kind of trending family-wise. So how do you acknowledge that and make those steps to improve your optimism?

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:24:28 - 00:24:57]

That, that is great. That is a great question. So, so this is really sort of part of that cognitive restructuring that we were talking about earlier. So if you have pessimistic thoughts around your sleep, we would first work hard at identifying what are those automatic negative thoughts, right? I call them ants, like the guys that ruin your picnic. An automatic negative thought. Um, uh, in, in cognitive behavioral therapy, we would refer to these as cognitive distortions, right? Like all-or-nothing thinking.

Darleen Mahoney [00:24:57 - 00:24:57]

Okay.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:24:57 - 00:25:26]

Disqualifying the positive, catastrophizing, personalizing. These are all sort of these more pessimistic or negative thoughts, distorted thoughts that we first have to identify. And then as I say, it isn't so much about stopping a negative thought as it is adding another thought to it, right? So like if I have this cup of coffee and it's way too strong— it isn't, it's perfect. If it was way too strong, would I just dump out half the coffee and the remaining coffee would be perfect?

Darleen Mahoney [00:25:26 - 00:25:28]

No.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:25:28 - 00:25:31]

No, it doesn't work that way, right? Same, same with—

Darleen Mahoney [00:25:31 - 00:25:32]

You just get less bad coffee.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:25:32 - 00:26:07]

Exactly. Just like my negative thoughts, I can't just dump them out. What I need to do is I need to add something to those thoughts. Just like I would add creamer or sugar or water or something to thin out my very strong coffee, I need to start intentionally adding more, more positive thoughts or even neutral, even a neutral thought, a more accurate thought is better than a negative one. And then slowly over time, these more neutral or positive ones would replace those automatic negative ones. So first is finding them, and then is intentionally adding something else to that moment.

Darleen Mahoney [00:26:07 - 00:26:36]

Do you think that with intention, looking at each day in the beginning and maybe each day in the end— this is just something I'm thinking that I could utilize— is gratitude for the day? So what was good for the day? So kind of— and looking for the good in the day, I think, is the other thing. What would make today great? What can I do today? And it may not even be something that's is gifted to you, but it's something maybe you gift to someone else.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:26:36 - 00:26:36]

Sure.

Darleen Mahoney [00:26:36 - 00:26:48]

You know, what would make today great? You know what, I'm gonna, I'm gonna help an old lady in the grocery store. Um, I'm gonna— I, I don't know, just there's a million different things that I think can fill that cup a little bit.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:26:48 - 00:26:49]

Absolutely.

Darleen Mahoney [00:26:49 - 00:26:50]

But they're intentional.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:26:50 - 00:27:15]

Very intentional and strategic, right? Like this. And this is why working with a mental health therapist or a licensed social worker like myself, um, is, is really important to help you kind of find those things. be able to pick those out. What are my negative thoughts? What are these sort of automatic, almost distortions that are popping up? Maybe it is, is a lack of gratitude. And we would call that disqualifying the positive.

Darleen Mahoney [00:27:15 - 00:27:15]

Right.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:27:15 - 00:27:41]

Like I come to the end of my day and all I can see is the problems. The whole day wasn't a problem, I promise. Most of the day probably went fine. You may have had some very big problems, but most of the day went fine. But we're disqualifying that. So, so a gratitude practice is literally the cream to my thick sugar, to my thick coffee moment, right? I love a gratitude jar. I have one. I keep— I've kept one for years.

Darleen Mahoney [00:27:41 - 00:27:56]

I like that. Yeah, I didn't think about a jar. Yeah, that's a good idea because that's really super quick. Yeah. And then, and then when you are like in a place, you can pull it out and pull out some of those gratitudes as a reminder. Um, to kind of boost your—

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:27:56 - 00:27:57]

have hope.

Darleen Mahoney [00:27:57 - 00:27:58]

Have hope.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:27:59 - 00:28:16]

Yes, yes. And remind yourself that it isn't— while there is bad, this isn't about like pretending like there aren't problems in the world. This isn't like gaslighting yourself into like ignoring or dismissing things that are problematic. It's just making sure that that's not the only thing in my cup. Right.

Darleen Mahoney [00:28:16 - 00:28:43]

Yeah, exactly. Oh my gosh, that's the best lesson Yes. I will take that all day long. Yeah. No, well, I really appreciate that. So one of the things I did want to ask you about, because I know that you mentioned sleep hygiene, and the first thing that I thought of was, is it better to have a warm bath and a shower at night, or is that something that's helpful?

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:28:43 - 00:29:41]

Yes, yes, that's good. So I get so excited when I get to talk about the science behind it. So body temperature is directly related to the science of sleep. So remember when we were talking about the hypothalamus and the central— the pacemaker, sort of all those automatic systems within that sort of circadian rhythm system, that wake-sleep system is a change in your body temperature. So in the peak of your day, your body temperature is the highest. At the peak of the evening or the middle of the evening is where your body temperature is the lowest. So I can in fact hack this system with a hot shower or a hot bath about 2 hours before bedtime. To force my body temperature to start coming down, right? Which is going to sort of kickstart part of that sleep system. So, my sleep system says, cool down, Tiffany. Like, your body temperature is supposed to start coming down now so you can sleep now. So, I can kind of hack into that system with a hot bath or a hot shower about 2 hours before bed.

Darleen Mahoney [00:29:41 - 00:30:00]

Yeah, because I will tell you, I am the girl that's always cold. I mean, even we're in Florida, it's a gazillion degrees, and I'll still have like a little shawl. People are like, what? And I'm just, I always, if the wind has any little coolness to it, it gives me a chill.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:30:00 - 00:30:00]

Yeah.

Darleen Mahoney [00:30:00 - 00:30:06]

But about 9 o'clock at night, I could toast a bagel.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:30:06 - 00:30:08]

You just start getting hot.

Darleen Mahoney [00:30:08 - 00:30:09]

So I mean, I just start getting hot.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:30:09 - 00:30:11]

That's very interesting.

Darleen Mahoney [00:30:12 - 00:30:28]

Yeah, I just start— there's some probably hormones related to that, but I've really noticed I can— I'm like, I'm just dying. It's just the craziest thing that my body is so obviously regulating based on day and night.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:30:28 - 00:30:49]

Yeah, and very opposite to what your natural sleep system would want. We actually want you cooling down at night. So, you may be able to force yourself a couple hours before that to get really, really hot. And see if then you sit under a fan with the air conditioner in your face and see if that would force your body temperature to start to cool down. Yeah.

Darleen Mahoney [00:30:49 - 00:30:51]

Interesting. Crazy.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:30:51 - 00:31:11]

It is. It is a very complex system, sleep, right? Insomnia is just one of about 80 different sleep disorders and conditions that sort of exist. There's a ton of science and a ton of mental health And a ton of negative thoughts and a ton of sleep hygiene. Like, it is very complicated.

Darleen Mahoney [00:31:11 - 00:31:14]

Yeah, it is complicated just to get a couple Z's.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:31:14 - 00:31:28]

It is. And that's why it's really important to work with somebody. Like, this isn't something that you should have to navigate by yourself. You don't need to be an expert on sleep science. You can go find that person. And again, bless our medical providers, it's not them.

Darleen Mahoney [00:31:28 - 00:31:43]

Right. So if, if this is something you see specifically wanted to look for, and we have listeners that are all over the country, so they're not in our backyard, probably enjoying some cooler weather today, but maybe not.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:31:43 - 00:31:44]

I know, right?

Darleen Mahoney [00:31:44 - 00:31:59]

But what would they look for if they said, you know what, I need to talk to somebody about this that's not my medical provider? So what would they, if they were going to go to Google or whatever, what kind of therapist would be your best bet to put into that?

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:31:59 - 00:32:40]

Sure, sure. Well, you— I would probably try to find somebody who can deal with some type of chronic illness or chronic condition because that's what insomnia is. It's rarely a situation that just goes away on its own. I would look for somebody with some training in cognitive behavioral therapy. Even better if they've got some certifications in cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia. That's a very, very specific training. But otherwise, it's, it's really about finding a fit when it, when it comes to a therapist. So somebody obviously that's licensed and board certified and all of that, but somebody that you can really be honest with, right? I mean, if you hold back part of the story, just like if I go to the doctor and I don't tell him all my symptoms, he can't treat me.

Darleen Mahoney [00:32:40 - 00:32:41]

Right.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:32:41 - 00:33:12]

Right? If I don't tell him what's going on. So finding somebody that you feel comfortable with, that you'll be honest with, and that, you know, you, you trust and respect enough to try some really wild things they might ask of you. Like, I may ask you to take the TV out of your bedroom and you've had it there for 44 years and you're not happy with me, but I may still ask that of you. Or to, to turn your phone off, like literally put that sucker on do not disturb and pretend we're in the '90s and you just can't be reached and it's gonna be okay.

Darleen Mahoney [00:33:12 - 00:33:16]

Yeah, and let's be real, Johnny Carson's not on anymore. You don't need the TV at night.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:33:16 - 00:33:18]

You really don't. You really don't.

Darleen Mahoney [00:33:18 - 00:33:29]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So no, those are just some great tips. And, um, I would like— would you like to share like your information if anyone is interested in, in connecting with you directly?

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:33:29 - 00:33:53]

Of course, of course. So, so I am licensed here in Florida as well as Iowa, which is actually where I grew up and, and went to college. Go Hawks! Um, but, but so I obviously offer virtual support for those out of state and in person, uh, in Melbourne for those here. But I can, I can be reached. You can find me online or just reach out by phone or text. And do you want me to share my number?

Darleen Mahoney [00:33:53 - 00:34:04]

So I— yeah, I will put it up so you can share that with me, and then we'll put the link to your website, etc., within the description of the podcast.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:34:04 - 00:34:05]

Perfect. Perfect.

Darleen Mahoney [00:34:06 - 00:34:13]

Easy, easy access. So for sure, because I do think you would be such a great resource for folks that are really on the struggle bus.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:34:13 - 00:34:33]

Yeah, yeah, I know. And I think The most important thing I can say is that this is very treatable and there is room for hope here. With structured cognitive behavioral therapy, 90% of patients will return to normal sleepers. 90%. That's as high of a rate as anybody can give you, right?

Darleen Mahoney [00:34:33 - 00:34:34]

Yeah.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:34:34 - 00:34:41]

And for those of you who are taking sleep medications, 80% of my clients will come off those meds entirely in 6 weeks.

Darleen Mahoney [00:34:42 - 00:34:51]

Oh, wow. I will tell you, I know that medications are something that's normally given. I am not a fan of— the least amount of medications I can be on—

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:34:51 - 00:34:52]

Me too.

Darleen Mahoney [00:34:52 - 00:34:54]

—is where I want to be regardless of what it's for.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:34:54 - 00:34:55]

Of course.

Darleen Mahoney [00:34:55 - 00:35:00]

So I think that's a goal that I'm consistently working on.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:35:00 - 00:35:19]

Especially with sleep, your body can do this, I promise. It just needs to kind of come back to some basic rhythms. And, and the process, like I said, is a little hard and things may get a little worse before they get a little better. But I like to think of it like a defibrillator, right? It's a shock to the system, but it will bring you back into rhythm.

Darleen Mahoney [00:35:19 - 00:35:24]

Right. Do it the right way. Thank you so much for joining us.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:35:24 - 00:35:25]

Of course. Thanks for having me.

Darleen Mahoney [00:35:25 - 00:35:40]

This was, this was very enlightening to me. I hope our listeners are caregivers because, you know, they've got some stuff going on as well that can stress. The stress, as well as seniors that are, you know, have their own set of stressors and anxiety in their lives.

Tiffiny Ann Overath [00:35:40 - 00:35:41]

Of course.

Darleen Mahoney [00:35:41 - 00:35:55]

Thank you so much for joining us. If you enjoyed this podcast, you can find us anywhere you listen to podcasts, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and many more. Please don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe. Thanks for listening.