Hospice Myth Busters: What You Should Know

Today, we delve into the sometimes misunderstood and stigmatized world of hospice care with our distinguished guest, Tom Moreland. As the Senior VP of Hospice Operations at Traditions Health with over 25 years of invaluable experience in home health and hospice, Tom joins us to dispel myths and clarify misconceptions surrounding hospice care.

Tom will share insights on the scope of hospice care, which includes medical support, emotional and spiritual assistance, and essential services for families, lasting even beyond a patient’s passing. Our hosts will also discuss the importance of being proactive when choosing hospice care and the benefits of interviewing multiple providers to find the best fit for your needs.

 Website: https://www.traditionshealth.com

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Transcript

Darleen Mahoney [00:00:10]:

Welcome, everyone. Thank you for joining today's podcast. We are joined by Tom Moreland. He is the senior vice president of hospice operations at Traditions Health. He has over 25 years of home health and hospice experience. Before joining Traditions Health, Tom held a variety of senior leadership positions with companies like Aviana Healthcare, NextAF and St. Jude's Hospice and Spirit Home Care. He definitely has a wealth of knowledge and a long track record in the post acute care industry, and he plays a crucial role in strengthening hospice operations at Traditions Health.

 Darleen Mahoney [00:00:49]:

Welcome, Tom. Thank you so much for joining us today.

 Tom Moreland [00:00:52]:

Thank you. So happy to be here.

 Unknown [00:00:53]:

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm really excited to talk about this topic. It's something that I have definitely wanted to talk about for some time because it's something that it can be so confusing to some people. And we're going to do basically Mythbusters and it's going to be talking about hospice care. Yeah. Because honestly, hospice care, there's such a stigma that is attached to it. And I think. I know I had parents, both of my parents went through hospice care.

 Unknown 00:01:22]:

And the very first time I heard it, it was a lot for me to take in. And it really had to be explained to me to kind of take that fear out of it and make it a. I don't want to say good experience for my parents, but probably the best experience you can have in the state that they were in. My mom was dying of ovarian cancer and then my dad was in really late stages of dementia. So it's. It's definitely something that was needed and it really helped on our end as well to give them that comfort and the comfort that we had as a family.

Tom Moreland [00:01:57]:

So I always tell people, I'm sorry to hear you needed it, but I'm so happy that you had it.

Unknown [00:02:02]:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. My mom actually was in hospice for several weeks. My dad was not. So that was two long weeks of 24 hour, seven days a week hospice care that I don't think. In fact, I know we could not have done it without them. There's just no way we could have done it without them. So the pain that my mom was in was a excruciating.

Unknown [00:02:26]:

So it was something that we needed and I. It was hard to watch someone else take care of her, but knowing that she was getting the best care was such key.

Tom Moreland [00:02:35]:

Sure.

Unknown [00:02:36]:

Well.

Tom Moreland [00:02:36]:

And then you could just be the daughter, right?

Unknown [00:02:38]:

Yeah.

Tom Moreland [00:02:38]:

Let us do that. Heavy lift symptom management, do all that while. You could just be her daughter.

Unknown [00:02:44]:

Yeah, I could. I laid in bed with her and sang with her and. Oh, I sang to her because she was not able. But then giving her that permission for me on my end, the permission for her to go ahead and go because I feel like she held on and probably because she wanted to make sure somebody took care of my dad. So I would, like, really reassure her how much she heard or knew and understand. I'll never know until we meet again. But I did tell her, mama, you can go because we're going to take care of that. You don't have to worry about it.

Unknown [00:03:17]:

So just.

Tom Moreland [00:03:20]:

You know, they are holding on for that. Sometimes it's a pet who's going to take care of my cat. Sometimes it's a loved one. And so, you know, we. We work with that in the whole psychosocial aspect.

Darleen Mahoney [00:03:31]:

Yeah, I'm sure that dog issue was with my mom. That dog was her baby, so. And that dog slept with her in the bed. So.

Tom Moreland [00:03:39]:

Yeah, we see that a lot, too. Like pets. No, like, they'll stay right there. Like the.

Unknown [00:03:46]:

Yeah, yeah, that. That little Shih Tzu absolutely knew. So. And then I think she really struggled after my mom passed away. So, yeah, you could really tell. She. She didn't leave. She didn't leave.

Unknown [00:03:57]:

Probably live probably four or five months after my mom passed away. But she was a senior dog anyway, so. I mean, she was older, but yeah.

Tom Moreland [00:04:05]:

And you died from a broken heart.

Unknown [00:04:07]:

A hundred percent. Yeah. 100. Because she'd look for. Yeah. So let's talk about. So there's 11 myths that are identified. So let's talk about myth number one.

Unknown [00:04:26]:

Oh, no. Myth number one. Hospice is a place.

Tom Moreland [00:04:32]:

Yeah. You know, hospice is a philosophy of care. You know, oftentimes you hear the word palliative care, symptom management. You know, we are there to alleviate suffering. If people ask what hospice is, it isn't about a terminal prognosis. It isn't about six months to live. And it's not about a place. It's about that we are there to alleviate suffering and be with the patient on their journey as they transition to the next.

Tom Moreland [00:04:55]:

We are there, wherever that might be. And that might be a home or it might be a nursing home where they call home, an assisted living and independent living. It could be a multitude of places, but it certainly isn't a place. Now, we do have hospice houses and inpatient care facilities, even hospice wings on different hospitals and acute care settings. But really, hospice is not a place in its essence. It is a team approach of social works, social workers, chaplains, nurses, aides that come out to alleviate suffering.

Unknown [00:05:26]:

Yeah.

Tom Moreland [00:05:27]:

Ever they call home.

Unknown [00:05:28]:

Exactly. And I know that I had one that my dad was in assisted living at the time. My mom was in home in home. And I know that they were very accommodating and bringing anything into the home medically that she needed. So she didn't have to be in a hospital care setting or a hospice department or whatever you would call it. I don't know the exact phrase for it. So I apologize. But she didn't have to be there.

Unknown [00:05:55]:

She could be in the home. And then they brought in what she needed, which was really nice because that took a lot of the stress off of us as well.

Tom Moreland [00:06:02]:

Yeah. A lot of people don't know that durable medical equipment is covered under the Medicare hospice benefit and also by both commercial insurances. So, you know, whether it's a hospital bed, to a chair, to a bedside commode, oxygen concentrator, you name it, we can bring it into the home and do everything there.

Unknown [00:06:20]:

Yeah, that was really convenient. So let's talk about myth number two. Hospice is only for cancer patients.

Tom Moreland [00:06:28]:

Yeah. You know, I think when they originally wrote the hospice benefit, that was, they were looking at that in, you know, that at the time was the focus. But over the years and we've learned how great hospice is and how it can work with a multitude of diagnoses. Believe it or not, cancer has fallen below 50% of the hospice diagnoses. So of all the hospice patients on or that are on across the country, less than 50% are cancer diagnoses. You know, we've seen a big uptick in dementia, as you mentioned with your father. Alzheimer's, chf, copd, you know, those are life limiting illnesses that ultimately end in, you know, in death. Parkinson's, als, you know, and then sometimes there's just a patient that has a bunch of things going on that is, you know, growing frail, not eating, losing weight and working with their physician.

Tom Moreland [00:07:25]:

We can kind of key on exactly what is going to be that, that diagnosis. But it certainly does not have to be cancer.

Unknown [00:07:32]:

Yeah, absolutely. And I do think you're right. I mean, I would love to research it and take a peek at it. But I do feel like when I was much, much younger, it was specifically more related to cancer diagnoses.

Tom Moreland [00:07:43]:

Yeah, yeah, we've learned a lot and we've learned how great it is. You know, it's one of the unique things that the federal government and Medicare has done is that has this hospice benefit that covers basically everything from your medications to your durable medical equipment to all the care that's provided not. It's unlike anything else in the healthcare system. And it covers really any diagnosis that is life limiting care.

Unknown [00:08:28]:

So let's go ahead and do you want to dig into myth number three? Yes. We don't want to skip any. Right. So that is. Hospice care is only for the elderly. Not true.

Tom Moreland [00:08:44]:

Yeah, not true. You know, as we just talked about, there's many different diagnoses. Obviously, anybody at that stage of life could have it, you know. You know, the great thing is that a lot of these diagnoses happen as we age, but that's just not certainly true. You know, we see people of all ages, including pediatric patients. So, you know, it is the full spectrum. We always say that death does not discriminate, not only based on ethnicity, economic standards, certainly not age as well.

Unknown [00:09:15]:

Yeah, absolutely. If you need it, you need it. It's not, you know, for sure. So let's talk about myth number four, which is really interesting because you touched on this a little bit when you were chatting with me right before we dug in. Hospice care is only for the patient.

Tom Moreland [00:09:37]:

Yeah. And, you know, really, we wrap around. We wrap around our arms around everybody. Right. You know, and sometimes, I mean, we're certainly there for the patient, but sometimes even more for the family. You know, there's lots of dynamics that we deal with and, you know, lots of, you know, there's bigger families, smaller families, and some that, you know, live apart and that are coming together that maybe haven't seen each other for a while. There's a lot, you know, that's why we have a social worker on staff and a chaplain that really can deal with some of those family issues, but also just to love on them. And then not only that, but follow them after the time that the patient has transitioned.

Tom Moreland [00:10:14]:

So through our bereavement support, we certainly are there for the next 13 months. We're caring for that family. We're reaching out. Our bereavement coordinator is staying in contact with them long after the patient has left us. We are still giving care to that family.

Unknown [00:10:29]:

Yeah. So anyone that's listening, that's considering hospice services, no matter where they're located, because we, you know, this podcast is heard all across the US Which I love, but sometimes they just need information on one of the questions and some of the. Because hospice is something you can choose, it's not something that's assigned to you. It's. It's. You can choose the hospice that you would like. Is that correct? The hospice provider and asking about that after this happens after my parent or loved one or whoever the case, whatever the case may be, has passed over. Do you still continue to reach out and provide services to us as a family? Because I don't know that that's standard.

Unknown [00:11:09]:

So I think that's such a great question to ask, and I'm really, really thrilled to hear that Traditions Health provides those services, because that is really important.

Tom Moreland [00:11:19]:

Yeah. I always tell families two things. One, try to be proactive in looking at this. It's so much harder to do in a time of emergency. You know, if you know that somebody's dealing with a chronic illness that may turn terminal, start looking into that beforehand because it. You know, when all of a sudden you're in an ICU and things are getting really crazy and really hectic, it's hard to make really clear good decisions. To have that a little bit beforehand is always great. And then I also say, always interview a couple providers.

Tom Moreland [00:11:47]:

Every city has more than one. You know, a lot of people just think hospice is hospice, but there are different hospices. And really, you know, as friends call me, knowing that I'm in hospice, I always say interview 2 to 3. Get a gut feeling with them. Find out what services they provide. Because there is a difference between individual hospice providers.

Unknown [00:12:06]:

Yeah, absolutely. And even when you're doing that interview, if you have that warm and fuzzy, you have that connection with that person and the services that they provide, I think is kind of what you need to look for is just that, because that's someone that's going to be taking care of your family member or your loved one in probably one of the most intimate ways that you can. So I think it's really important to know that they have as much passion and empathy as you do for your family member.

Tom Moreland [00:12:38]:

And, you know, it's a very special time. You know, how often do we invite strangers in when you're giving birth? Right. And it's very similar time at the end of life. Right?

Unknown [00:12:47]:

Yeah.

Tom Moreland [00:12:47]:

And, you know, all of sudden, strangers are in your home at a very, very important, unique moment. And so it's really important on who you choose, you know, similar to, you know, giving birth of who you want in that room.

Unknown [00:13:00]:

Yeah. Yeah, 100%. Okay. So this is one of my favorite Myths Busters. Myth number five, that hospice is unaffordable. That is not true either.

Tom Moreland [00:13:13]:

I am so happy to say that is not the case. When I go out and talk to people and educate and talk about our services, I just love that I get to say it is no cost to you. Most of the time, every once in a while there's a small copay on a commercial insurance. But under the Medicare hospice benefit, so you're over 65, you have Medicare, it pays 100%. Not only does it pay for all the care providers that come in, and you know, I mentioned those aids, chaplain, social, but it pays for the medications related to the terminal illness, pays for the medical equipment if you need medical supplies like Chucks, depends, other things. It is all encompassing. It pays 100%. No copays under Medicare in most states, 49 to 50 states, Medicaid matches that.

Tom Moreland [00:14:00]:

So if you have state benefits, it pays for that. And almost all commercial insurances have some type of hospice benefit. There could be a small co pay, but most of the time there's not. Insurance companies a lot of time match that Medicare hospice benefit. So it is so great that this is an absolutely almost free service.

Unknown [00:14:20]:

Right? Because when you're, you're, you're dealing with someone that is passing away or they're very ill or they're under hospice care, adding additional expenses can be just an additional stressor or anxiety point on a family. And so having that taken away is definitely a huge bonus. And that's one thing, I'll be honest, when my mom initially went in, I did not know that that had to be explained to me at the onset of those visits because I did think that there was going to be, you know, this was going to be something that might be pricey. I just didn't even know.

Tom Moreland [00:14:55]:

Sure.

Unknown [00:14:56]:

Yeah, sure. So this is the next myth, which is myth number six is something that I think the majority of our listeners probably do not realize. So the myth number six is you can only receive hospice care if death is imminent.

Tom Moreland [00:15:13]:

Yeah, yeah, that is definitely a myth. You know, it is a six month benefit. You know, unfortunately, the median length of stay is under 30 days. We're constantly working at that, letting people know we can be even more of a benefit the more time we're in there. And you talked about, you know, your parents and the different lengths of time that they were there. The more time we have, the more we can do, get those symptoms under control, spend time with the family, wrap our arms around them and make sure it's a great experience. So, you know, and we do have some patients that live longer than the six months, and that's okay as long as we can meet with our medical director, our physician, our team, and qualify them. Sometimes patients go longer than six months.

Tom Moreland [00:16:01]:

Sometimes it's many months after that. So, you know, we do have two 90 day periods and then 60 day assessments after to make sure that the person qualifies. But hospice is not, you know, for that. Just when they're actively dying. Sometimes that does happen, and that's okay. But, you know, we want to be there for the full six months. And, you know, and it's paid for for that full six months. So we hope that people take advantage of that.

Unknown [00:16:26]:

Right. And correct me if I'm wrong, during that timeline, sometimes you're not there. Like my parents had 24, 7. Hospice can come in just maybe once a week. It's really what's needed versus what people need, Right?

Tom Moreland [00:16:40]:

Yeah. You know, we get patients that are more imminent and, you know, it is daily visits and we're there a little bit more for some that it's kind of, you know, they've just got the news, they're starting that progression. They realize that cancer treatment is no longer working. Chemo, radiation, and so they're going to stop aggressive care. And so they only want, you know, one nursing visit a week. And they don't need the aids right now. They're bathing still on their own. Maybe they have a really good relationship with their church pastor, and so they don't want the chaplain.

Tom Moreland [00:17:07]:

It can be as little or as much as you want. If you need a whole lot, we can provide that if you would like, you know, less at the beginning. And usually you do see service intensity, you know, increase as the journey continues.

Unknown [00:17:21]:

Sure, absolutely. So we'll do myth number seven. Hospice means giving up all medical treatment.

Tom Moreland [00:17:30]:

Yeah, that's a myth, too. You know, hospice is about quality of life. And what we've noticed is that sometimes that quality of life isn't there with some aggressive treatment. We all know that people get sick with some of these treatments, and so we do want to look at all of those. But working with our medical director and our team, we look at everything. A lot of people think there's no more labs or IV treatments or some simple things that we can do in the home, which is also a myth. We can do those. We look at every individual, their care plan, what treatments they're on, what makes sense and what don't.

Tom Moreland [00:18:09]:

Maybe there's a bunch of medications that don't make sense anymore because we do know that it's a life limiting illness. And so those medications aren't as important. And maybe it's truly like a blood pressure medication, but it's kind of making you sick and giving you a reflux. And we're just saying, well, high blood pressure Isn't really something we need to look at anymore because we're going this direction. And so we look at everything from the medications to the treatments.

Unknown [00:18:35]:

Yeah, exactly. And I know that my dad, they took him off medications that were something that he didn't need any longer, just based on his progression of illness.

Tom Moreland [00:18:47]:

So many meds, they actually do a little bit better, have a little rebound because they've just been on so many treatments and so many different medications, and you've been in and out of the hospital. That just being home and getting off some of that stuff. Which also tell you, I don't think it's on the myth list. But is that actually people that go in hospice live longer? I think it's. There's been some research on it that it's about 23 days longer than if you sought that aggressive treatment. When you go in hospice, a lot of that is the extra service that comes in the home. A lot of it is looking at some of these therapies that was maybe dragging the body down or doing some damage. So there's a lot of different reasons they've looked at.

Tom Moreland [00:19:26]:

A lot of it is just having that extra care that you haven't had in that support and that ability to be peace. And so actual research has shown that actually you live a little bit longer on hospice care.

Unknown [00:19:37]:

Oh, that is definitely an interesting nugget for sure. Let's do myth number. Which one are we on? We are on number eight. Hospice will not allow the use of a preferred provider. I think we kind of covered that, but let's. Let's hit it again.

Tom Moreland [00:19:56]:

Yeah. Is that in a physician provider? Right.

Unknown [00:20:00]:

Yeah. You know what? That might be what it is. So.

Tom Moreland [00:20:03]:

Yeah. So, you know, a lot of people have their physician that, you know they've been going to for 30, 40, 50 years or a preferred provider. This is an open door policy. We have a medical director on staff. A lot of times the patient will transition from that physician to ours, but it's not a requirement. You know, you can keep your physician, you can keep those providers. If you have a certain hospital system that you really love and that's where you want to keep going, that can happen.

Unknown [00:20:33]:

So hospice is just an additional. Typically, it's not to replace.

Tom Moreland [00:20:38]:

Absolutely.

Unknown [00:20:38]:

Or to change everything that you've already been doing and the physicians you're comfortable with already.

Tom Moreland [00:20:45]:

Absolutely. We do not want to hinder that relationship. In fact, we'll work with that physician. A lot of times they will say, hey, I'm family practice, an internal med. I am not an end of life care specialist. And so I really want to default to your medical director, but I want to be updated and I want to stay in contact with the family. We're going to do what's. Whatever best for the patient.

Unknown [00:21:02]:

Yeah, perfect. So hospital. I mean, my apologies. Hospice myth number nine. Hospice care is a decision made for a patient.

Tom Moreland [00:21:16]:

Hospice care is.

Unknown [00:21:17]:

It is a decision made for a patient.

Tom Moreland [00:21:22]:

Oh, no, that's. I mean, that is their decision.

Unknown [00:21:25]:

Right.

Tom Moreland [00:21:26]:

An informed consent is definitely part of that admission process. You choose whether this is what you feel would benefit you. Right. And another thing, you know, with that myth is that once you sign up for hospice, you can never go off. And that's certainly not true. At any given time, a patient can revoke. It is a call. We come out, you sign a form, you get all of your other benefits back.

Tom Moreland [00:21:51]:

You would like to start aggressive treatment again or go to a hospital. At any given time, a patient can revoke. Hospice isn't once you sign, you're on for life. At the same time, if you become not appropriate in terms of you gain weight, you start doing better, we don't see the disease progression anymore. We can't, you know, physician can't certify that if the disease took its normal course, you would pass away in six months. Then we can discharge. You know, we call it graduation. And about 7 to 10% of hospice patients do graduate or get discharged and go off hospice services with always the ability to come back.

Tom Moreland [00:22:27]:

But that is a decision between you, your family, the provider. We can lay it out for you and help give you that informed, you know, decision. But it's certainly your decision.

Unknown [00:22:37]:

Yeah, absolutely. I know that my mom made the decision on which one we chose, but clearly we had conversations as a family on what we thought and given her, because I know with her, and I'm sure with a lot of patients that are making this decision, it's a confusing decision. It's a hard decision. So having that family support is really important in making that decision, I imagine as well.

Tom Moreland [00:23:00]:

Absolutely.

Unknown [00:23:01]:

Yeah. Okay. So I know we talked about this one, but we'll hit it again. Which is myth number 10. Hospice care involves around the clock support.

Tom Moreland [00:23:11]:

Yeah. So it is a myth that we're in the home 24 hours a day, and we did just talk, you know, talk a little bit about it could be, you know, once a week to daily visits, but we are not there all the time. However, we are on call all the time. So 24 hours a day, there's a nurse that answers the phone. That can come out and see you if needed. So if there's an emergency in the middle of the night or, you know, for any reason that you need us, we are there. So. But we are not, you know, present 24 hours a day.

Tom Moreland [00:23:42]:

We're there quite a bit. Especially again, how much you would like us there and how much you wouldn't. We also want to be in the background because we want that family to have that time together. Right. We want to be able what we can do all the symptom management in the background and so. But it's not 24 hour care. I will say there are four levels of hospice care, and I won't go too deep on this. One's called routine, which is mostly what we've talked about.

Tom Moreland [00:24:05]:

There is general inpatient care where you're in a setting that has 24 hour nursing. There is respite where that's five days in a facility to relieve the family at home. Maybe they're going out of town or maybe they just need some relief. They can go to a facility for five days. And then that fourth level care is called communication continuous care. But there's got to be some qualifying factors and a lot of that may be actively dying. Symptoms have changed and we're trying to get those under control. But we can be there under continuous care up to 24 hours a day.

Tom Moreland [00:24:38]:

That's usually a short amount of time, two to three days. And it's, you know, you don't see that done with every patient. It's, it's, I don't want to say rare, but less than routine, you know, so 90% of what we use, that.

Unknown [00:24:52]:

Routine care, it's really what that patient needs, not what is indicated by what's provided. It really is customized to their needs.

Tom Moreland [00:25:01]:

Absolutely. And, you know, one thing I haven't talked about too, that I want to make sure I do say is we've got a group of volunteers at Traditions. We have over 650 volunteers. All hospices have volunteer programs. They have a volunteer coordinator. Medicare did a great thing in saying that, hey, we want 5% of all direct patient care hours to be from volunteers. And so, you know, it might not be 24 hours a day, but let's say, you know, the wife or husband needs to get out and do some grocery shopping or run some errands or sometimes just go for a walk or talk to a friend. I just need some time.

Tom Moreland [00:25:34]:

We can put a volunteer in that home to help with that.

Unknown [00:25:37]:

I love that because that is definitely something that's Needed. I think it's really hard when you're 24, 7, in an environment where you have your loved one that is in hospice or actively dying, that it can really just become so overwhelming. It's like being shut in and not being able to get out, and you don't feel like you're in reality. It's like an altered universe. Yeah.

Tom Moreland [00:25:59]:

When you're in a bubble, it is your whole world. And so just a walk goes really far. Just going to the mall, go to lunch with your best friend to just talk like that does so much. And so it's so great. We have volunteers help with that stuff.

Unknown [00:26:12]:

And they can do it guilt free, because I think that's part of it, too, is you have that guilt. If I go for a walk, if they need me, whatever the case may be, then it's, you know, I have to be there. I have to be there. So hopefully it's providing people with a little bit of relief and so they can enjoy their time. And also that there's no guilt involved in it too, because I know that when there's so much guilt that goes along with the decisions that you're making, as someone is really ill or anything like that, you want to make sure that you're making the right one. So it does provide that opportunity to really have that time knowing you made such a great, great decision for the best care of your person. So I think that's really a very good point, too. And that is something I didn't know that they did.

Unknown [00:26:51]:

So I did learn something new today.

Tom Moreland [00:26:53]:

Oh, good.

Unknown [00:26:55]:

Yeah. So let's do myth number 11. Hospice care means a patient's end of life is near or they are giving up.

Tom Moreland [00:27:04]:

Yeah, no, it's really about giving more. It's about having more life. In those days, yes, those days may be numbered, but it is really more about living. It's not about dying. It's about having that quality time with your family and your loved ones, even with yourself, and coming to peace with everything. You know, most of these people have been put to a ringer, whether it's hospital stays, surgeries, treatments, and that can be exhausting. And you just don't have that time. This gives you more time.

Tom Moreland [00:27:34]:

This gives you some time back to be with you, with your family, to really look at everything. And so it certainly isn't giving up. It's saying, I choose quality of life. I choose peace. I choose less suffering. I choose a different way. It's just different.

Unknown [00:27:50]:

Yeah. Now, I really appreciate that and really understanding that. So hospice we don't want people to be super fearful of it when we hear, like, the first time that I heard my mom's oncologist say Darlene, because I wanted to bring her into the hospital, but I didn't want her to have to. I wanted to make sure they took her right in. I didn't want her sitting in an emergency room. I just really wanted her to go right in and everything that was happening. He says, darlene, take her home. Take her home.

Unknown [00:28:21]:

And, yeah, that was my reality, in my mom's reality. And I had to explain that to her, which was really, really hard because she didn't understand why her doctor wasn't going to see her. So that was my hard conversation with her. But we did move forward through it. It's a conversation, honestly, I'll never, ever forget. It's embedded in my mind having that and trying to hear her voice. Not she. Because she was never.

Unknown [00:28:55]:

She never gave up. She fought cancer for eight years. She was not giving up, but her body was absolutely throwing in the towel. So it was just having that conversation. You know, my dad had dementia. He really, honestly didn't know what was going on. So that was a totally different experience. He just thought it was probably another doctor, I'm sure.

Unknown [00:29:16]:

But, yeah, so there's a family say.

Tom Moreland [00:29:21]:

You know, it was tough, but wow. And you even mentioned at the top of the call, we're so thankful. We had that so many times. Families are saying, we wish we may have been called sooner or it was mentioned. We just didn't want to go that route. We didn't want to give up. But, man, you know, because especially people that it's the first time they've had hospice, they just don't know. And they're just so thankful.

Tom Moreland [00:29:41]:

And time and time again, on family surveys or just even talking, we wish we didn't know sooner, or we would have tried to, you know, we didn't know.

Unknown [00:29:49]:

Yeah.

Tom Moreland [00:29:50]:

We didn't know how much this would help.

Unknown [00:29:52]:

Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, I definitely appreciate the services that hospice provides families and their patients. So you are with tradition South. Let's just talk about that for just a quick minute before we jump off. You are located in most of the U.S. correct?

Tom Moreland [00:30:09]:

You got it. We are in 18 states, so not the majority, but a lot from coast to coast. We've got offices from California to Virginia, everywhere in between central states like Nebraska, down to Texas, over to Louisiana, over to Arizona. So, you know, you can definitely go to our website and see we've got about 80 locations in those 18 states. So a lot, a lot of care.

Unknown [00:30:34]:

And what is that website URL for our listeners?

Tom Moreland [00:30:37]:

That is traditions health.com perfect.

Unknown [00:30:41]:

And we will have that in the description and copy for all the podcasts, no matter where you're listening. So if you're listening to Spotify or Apple podcasts, that link will be in that description. Is there anything else you wanted to add before we close out this podcast today, Tom?

Tom Moreland [00:30:57]:

I don't think so. I really enjoyed it. You know, I love looking at the subject and the more we can do to educate people and talk about this great hospice benefit, you know, it's still pretty young. It just became a bigger benefit. I believe in 85. So it's, it's still fairly new.

Unknown [00:31:11]:

Yeah, yeah. No, and I think educating people so they really don't. Don't. So that they really do understand it, because so many don't. And it is a scary word. I mean, you hear that and it just, it can fright, frighten people. So we want to take that stigma out of it. So, yeah.

Unknown [00:31:26]:

Thank you so much for joining us. And for those of you listening, thank you for joining today's podcast. If you enjoyed this podcast, we can be listened anywhere you enjoy music or podcasts such as Spotify, Apple podcasts, good pods. We are also available on babyboomer.org so check that out. And thanks for listening.